Do you use it #3-The Continuation Bet

[ungarstu132]

The Continuation Bet as mentioned by MANY top pros, including Dan Harrington and David Sklansky is one of the most important bets in poker. And is also one of the most effective. the reason for this is that there is really no defense against it.

According to Dan Harrington for a bet to be a continuation bet all of the following conditions must be true:

1-The player was the first to raise pre flop.

2-After the flop, no bets have been made yet.

3-And, the player making the bet didnt hit the flop.

The continuation bet is sort of like a semi-bluff.

Heres an example

Seat 1-SB 50 (folds when it comes to his turn)
Seat 2-BB 100 (folds when it comes to his turn)
Seat 3-Folds
Seat 4-Folds
ME (Seat 5)- raise to 300 with AK(suited hearts)
Seat 6-Folds
Seat 7-Calls
Seat 8-Folds
Seat 9-Folds

Flop comes Jh 6c 2s

I missed the flop, but i am first to act, the pot is 750. A continuation bet here would show strength, and is likely to take down the pot right here. Thats the goal of the continuation bet.

The other guy sees me raise pre flop, and he calls. Then he sees a J62 board, most likely this didnt hit him. When he sees you bet, it shows strength, and the VAST majority of players will not re raise with junk here, it just doesnt show a net profit.

A good continuation bet is somewhere from 1/2 to 3/4's the pot size. I personally would bet 400-500 here. And with that bet would take down the pot probably 90% of the time.

This is one of the most effective bets in poker because an opponent can do very little to defend it. The only thing they can do is RE RAISE your bet of about half the pot, and that is a VERY risky play. Most players, EVEN IF THEY SUSPECT YOU MISSED THE FLOP, will fold to your bet, because they dont want to risk a large amount of chips on a re raise BLUFF.

Using the continuation bet as second nature is a VERY good habit to acquire.

I hope this helps you all !!

Please let me know your opinions, and if you believe the continuation bet is effective.

Im glad I could help !

[frob23]

Originally Posted by ungarstu132 According to Dan Harrington for a bet to be a continuation bet all of the following conditions must be true: 1-The player was the betting leader [^first^to^raise^] pre-flop. 2-After the flop, no bets have been made yet. 3-And, the player making the bet didn't hit the flop.

I just had to make this one small note. You need to be the last to raise pre-flop. If you were reraised, you can't be the one making a continuation bet (but they can be).

I don't continuation bet all the time but I do it a majority of the time when it's possible. It can be very profitable if done right. I tend to stick closer to the 50% range myself. By the same token, even when I hit the flop I might bet 50% of the pot (usually more but I do bet 50% at times) so this does fit in my range of bets that I would make after hitting.

[ungarstu132]

Originally Posted by frob23 I just had to make this one small note. You need to be the last to raise pre-flop. If you were reraised, you can't be the one making a continuation bet (but they can be). I don't continuation bet all the time but I do it a majority of the time when it's possible. It can be very profitable if done right. I tend to stick closer to the 50% range myself. By the same token, even when I hit the flop I might bet 50% of the pot (usually more but I do bet 50% at times) so this does fit in my range of bets that I would make after hitting.

thank you, and you are correct, you must be the last person to make a raise pre flop, and the first person to bet on the flop...

anybody else have some other opinions?

[iceveins0901]

If you do C-bet, it is imperative to do so when you miss sometimes as well, to continue your action past the flop. You cannot let anyone be aware that you missed on the flop or they would easily raise you out of the hand.

In a Cash game, a C-bet 10-30% less than the size of the pot is sufficient. It is worth 5-7BBs, most people dont want to call that knowing they will have to put in 15-20BB on the turn.

Personally, I C-bet all the time. As we can see in the stat post, I am running a 11% VPIP or whatever, so whatever hand I play is worth a C-bet the vast majority of the time. I almost always make my C-bets 3/4 of the pot or pot-sized, betting smaller than that is giving better and better odds. Making a 1/2 pot sized bet on the flop is giving most hands a chance to draw out on you with correct odds. I bet larger so I can laugh at people later for making them incorrectly chase a naked flush draw.

Also, betting around the size of the pot seems fishy to people at my tables, so if I flop a big hand, lets try to get as much money in as possible by C-betting the flop around the size of the pot and then doing the same on the turn. I have had some heavy action hands with betting large and being called down by 2nd pair cause my near pot sized bet has "looked" like a bluff on the turn when the pot is big.

[Fictive]

I c-bet about 90% of the time. Works really well.

[allthatremains]

I find the c-bet works better if you have position.

If you miss the flop, but you c-bet 3/4 pot oop and you get called, what do you do if you miss the turn. Bet the turn anyway? Another 3/4 pot? What if called again? At this point you could have no chance at all(position could have flopped a set and was slow playing). My experience shows nowhere near 90% laydown from an oop c-bet on the flop.- maybe 60-70%

I have been on the other side of this. I call a raise in position pre-flop, oop bets flop, I call again, oop checks turn, I bet turn, oop folds. - easy money and the whole time I missed or had next to nothing.

[Vito_Nuccio]

If you raise before the flop and get called and do not hit anything on the flop, you must continue to bet, oh 50-70% of the time. You have to give yourself a chance to win the pot with possibly the inferior hand. Of couse number of players, flop content, chip stacks, reads and more weigh into the decision also, but as stated before if you only bet when you have something, you become too predictable.

[Latrocinium]

Originally Posted by allthatremains I have been on the other side of this. I call a raise in position pre-flop, oop bets flop, I call again, oop checks turn, I bet turn, oop folds. - easy money and the whole time I missed or had next to nothing.

I think we've all been on that side of this token. I think harrington even mentions in his book that you can't do it all the time.

If everytime we make it to a pot that uv raised, and you c bet it. Then I'm gonna raise ya atleast 1 or 2 times just to see where you're really at. If ya blink then I'm definately gonna raise ya.

The only way I would let you slide a lil extra is if you were the chipstack. And that's only cuz you could get lucky and knock me out, but I'm still gonna raise ya. lol.

If you're going to c bet it. I'd say about 50-70% of the time is good. If someone reraises you and you think they have you. Then walk away. If it's a player and you think they're playing back at you. Well maybe you've done it a lil to much, and you need to cool your jets for a lil while.
1 or 2 orbits, and you've gotta do something to stay ahead of the blinds.

I like Sklansky cuz he pushes the ideals of HAG or deception as he writes it. While trying to convince the table otherwise. You have to be aware of how other people see you. If it's LAG, then less bluffing. If it's TAG, then more bluffing & if it's good HAG with good timing, well it does'nt matter they won't know what ya gots.

[ungarstu132]

Originally Posted by Fictive I c-bet about 90% of the time. Works really well.

the other 10% of the time you check? if so, why, im just curious to why you would not bet if you were the aggressor pre flop and nobody has showed strength post flop.

[iceveins0901]

Originally Posted by allthatremains I find the c-bet works better if you have position. If you miss the flop, but you c-bet 3/4 pot oop and you get called, what do you do if you miss the turn. Bet the turn anyway? Another 3/4 pot? What if called again? At this point you could have no chance at all(position could have flopped a set and was slow playing). My experience shows nowhere near 90% laydown from an oop c-bet on the flop.- maybe 60-70% I have been on the other side of this. I call a raise in position pre-flop, oop bets flop, I call again, oop checks turn, I bet turn, oop folds. - easy money and the whole time I missed or had next to nothing.

Yep, it is said to give up on most of your bluffs after the flop if you whiff and and get called. Sometimes though, maybe 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 turn bets, they say you should bet with a missed hand, just to keep mixing it up. If your opponent knows sometimes you are going to bet the turn with air, he will be more likely to call you on the turn hoping you are bluffing.

[ungarstu132]

Originally Posted by iceveins0901 Yep, it is said to give up on most of your bluffs after the flop if you whiff and and get called. Sometimes though, maybe 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 turn bets, they say you should bet with a missed hand, just to keep mixing it up. If your opponent knows sometimes you are going to bet the turn with air, he will be more likely to call you on the turn hoping you are bluffing.

great reply, thanx, its very true about 15% of the time, make a bet on the turn, thats how i play...

any other opinions/thoughts?

[Latrocinium]

Here's the thing about bluffing.

If you get caught in this instance on a c-bet. (Talking to allthatremains, and backing up a few others)

Yea, you're gonna get busted every so often. If you don't get caught bluffing every once in awhile. Then you're not bluffing enough. (Again Sklansky, think I'm sellin his books, lol)

Ok, bad. You got caught bluffing. Now the whole table looks at you different. lol. Not the whole table, but that person a maybe a few other key people.

Now when you catch a nasty on the flop.(Unless you've been sitting for an orbit or 2, then this does'nt apply) Go ahead and do the same thing. Same timing, same bets, same stops. Some of those key people or less experienced fish or going to bite. The players usually won't pay you off on the river. But an smi-observant fish will every time.

It pays to pay attention.

[ungarstu132]

Originally Posted by Latrocinium Here's the thing about bluffing. If you get caught in this instance on a c-bet. (Talking to allthatremains, and backing up a few others) Yea, you're gonna get busted every so often. If you don't get caught bluffing every once in awhile. Then you're not bluffing enough. (Again Sklansky, think I'm sellin his books, lol) Ok, bad. You got caught bluffing. Now the whole table looks at you different. lol. Not the whole table, but that person a maybe a few other key people. Now when you catch a nasty on the flop.(Unless you've been sitting for an orbit or 2, then this does'nt apply) Go ahead and do the same thing. Same timing, same bets, same stops. Some of those key people or less experienced fish or going to bite. The players usually won't pay you off on the river. But an smi-observant fish will every time. It pays to pay attention.

of course, and thats a great thought, i loved sklansky's book tournament poker for advanced poker, did you read the HOH series?

[Latrocinium]

read vol 1 & 2, just picked up vol 3.
So some good readin comin

[ungarstu132]

i liked vol 1 and 2 more than 3, but 3 was good.