SNG – How many games to come out ahead?

[greenruss]

I have been playing for 1 year, and I only play no limit SNG online.

I accumulated 30m play chips - so I think I learnt a bit, and play a tight patient game.

Now I am playing $1 SNG, and have lost about $40 over a three week period, playing on and off.

80% of my losses are to bad beats. I can understand losing to bad beats if one plays a tight game, but the losing ratio is just unmanageable.

Is it possible to come out ahead at this level or should I move up to say $5/10 SNG?

[irishpkr]

"I accumulated 30m play chips - so I think I learnt a bit, and play a tight patient game."

-Means nothing, sorry


"Is it possible to come out ahead at this level or should I move up to say $5/10 SNG?"

-No, every single player at your level is losing $$ /sarcasm. If you can't beat $1, no point moving up to bleed more, if you're getting your money in good, nothing more you can do, good luck and hope variance turns round for you

[Goooool]

Instead of moving to the $5/$10 SNG, which I am guessing is a good percentage of your bank roll, try the .5/,10 cent cash table (6 man). I make a killing at those as a part time player.

Took a dollar and through those tables alone have my bank roll to 1700. You need to change your strategy, but you should be fine at those tables.

[gamer4life27]

It all depends on what kind of SnG's you are playing.

Many people play the 9-man SnG's for $1 + $0.25 or whatever on FTP. This would mean you would have to have a bankroll of at least $125. Playing the 9-man SnG's is the best way to build up a bankroll because you have to win 1/3 of the time to break even. But in the 45-man or 90-man SnG's, you would have to cash more times to break even. I think the 45 man SnG's pays top 5, right? If so, then you would have to win 1/5 of the time to break even. And the 90-man SnG's pay only top 9, meaning you would have to win 1/10 of the time to break even.

If you think you can out last and out play a bunch of donkeys, then play the 90-man or 45-man SnG's. But since you said that you play a tight game, the 9-man SnG's are for you definatly. In the larger tournaments, theres no room to wait around for the premium hands because you need to get chips, and if you don't, then you are going to become a victim of the blinds and eventually lose to bad beats left and right. But at the single table SnG's, you can wait for your premuim hands. And if you fall short in chips, it's not that hard to get back in it, as there is not that many chips in play.

Just remember, at any real money game you play, there is always going to be donkeys playing at that level. The higher you go, the less chance of a donkey to be at your table, but there is sitll chances. There just donkeys with lots of money to gamble with. But when you get to the pro levels, like in the $250/$500 cash game levels or something around there, then you know you are up against true poker players who are not willing to lose, and will gamble with you in an un-donkeyish fashion.

[snipermcgees]

I would not recommend moving up in stakes. In general, the players are going to get better as the stakes increase and your mindset will not be the best.

At the $1 level, you gain a lot of experience for a small buy-in, and it can really help your patience and tolerance (as a lot of players play crazy starting hands that lead to some tough beats). If you stay patient and play smart and aggressive you will start to see positive results.

3 weeks is not a lot of time to judge your overall performance, so you could just be victim of a rough string of luck. I played a lot of SNGs my first year of poker and had some months where my ROI (return of investment) was negative, and others where my ROI was positive.

In my experience, moving up in terms of buy-in during a losing period did not bode well. I generally was not in a good frame of mind and did not have a lot of confidence in my game. These factors combine for some bad play, and usually I would push the action and over-value my hands against players that were generally better than I was used to. After getting knocked out of a larger buy-in SNG than my usual would just make me more desperate and upset.

Low buy-in SNGs have some characteristics that you can take advantage of while playing them and building your bankroll.
Players are willing to play almost any two cards pre-flop, and do not like to fold. For this reason, you should not miss an opportunity for a pre-flop raise with premium hands. Try not to get fancy and limp with your big hands, because most players will limp behind and you will end up seeing a flop against more than one player and this is not good for most big starting hands like big pairs.
The play is usually bad and transparent. Most $1 SNG players bluff too often, slow-play their strong hands too much, and play too many hands overall. If you play patiently, you will have plenty of opportunities to see what and how your opponents are playing. Try to figure out which players are good and bad, and then target the bad players (there will be some good players like yourself that also have a small bankroll, and you don't want to mess with them without a strong hand). There will be players that play every hand, players that bluff non-stop, and players that fold too often. If you observe your opponents carefully, you will pick up important information.
Don't bluff too much. Most of your chips will come from playing straight-forward poker and getting called down with second-best hands.
Give players credit when they make big bets. I tend to believe that most of the players at this level are new or bad, and when they make a big bet they usually have a strong hand because they are not creative enough to make a move like that with a marginal holding. So you will need to fold some of your strong starting hands post-flop against strong bets (unless the player is a maniac bluffer that you have already seen make big bets with weak hands, then you can call).
Avoid the turbo SNGs. If you think you are a superior player, then slower levels will benefit you, whereas short levels tend to benefit luck over skill.
Take your time. Build up your bankroll and confidence before moving up. Moving up too fast combined with bad luck can cause you to go bust and have to re-deposit or stop playing, so be patient with your bankroll. With good play, you will see the benefits.
As your play improves, you will make it deeper in each sit n go, and you will need to become aggressive as the table get short-handed and the blinds increase. Most of the skills necessary will come with experience, another reason to stick with the lower buy-in SNGs.
Finally (sorry this got a lot longer than I anticipated), when you run into a tough situation where you are not sure what to do, write down the hand number and post it here in the forums for others to view and give you advice. Or maybe there was a player that was giving you a tough time and you need a strategy to adjust to their style of play. There are some strong players on this forum with lots of experience, some of which started playing $1 SNGs too!

Good luck!

[Vito_Nuccio]

My first question is what is the rake for a $1 game? If it is $.20 then this is the issue. Get to a level where the rake is 10% or less per SNG. Even the best players will have problems keeping up with this rake percentage.

Read snipermcgees's post again, there are some good tips there. Continue to be patient, the lower stakes have the most fish, but are the most dangerous........

Keep playing, as stated 3 weeks is not a long enough period to make a final judgement.

Runnin some numbers: 3 Weeks = 21 Days @ 5 games per day = 105 games played * (1.00 + .20)buyin/rake = your -$40 result. Yes you have lost money, but not a ton. If these numbers are close, you have risked about $125 dollars and are down $40. Not the worst run.

Lesson the rake if possible and grind out a few more wins and the numbers will start to turn the other direction. Adjust your game to the level or table you are at and build the bankroll.

Note: If most of your losses stem from a bad beat you are making the correct plays.

Later,

[Wyte22]

I have often discovered that K7 is a huge favorite to win again Aces. Even though on paper the aces look like they are 80% to win, don't listen to that garbage!! they fall more often than 20%! More hands that are far superior:

22 is Better than KK

42o is better than ATs

76o owns pkt 7s

Alot mores but the list could go on and on

Also note that if you are mathmatically the favorite post flop, your already behind, 1-3 outers are more common than paris hilton porno tapes.

-------> Note this entire post is joke <----------

[greenruss]

Thank you for taking the trouble to give me your excellent advice.

Your depth and quality of knowledge is daunting, but inspiring.

[frob23]

I have had runs where I couldn't win a sit and go for 15-20 games in a row. This might be attributed to how much I suck (a lot)... but I like to place the blame on variance.

You can have a bad run at these thing but over time they do even out... or are supposed to.

I would just recheck your strategy to make sure it's logical and likely to turn a profit. Post hands here to make sure we think you're playing sanely. And play through it. It will eventually end and turn around if you're playing right.

I have a person I know (the name won't be mentioned) who was down about $2k on sit and gos before he realized he needed to fix a bunch of holes in his game. He did and now he's almost back to zero. Don't let yourself get to that point before you start patching holes in your game (if there are any and there surely are). It is so much easier to make $40 back than $2,000.

[Wyte22]

Amen, if it helps you feel any better, my sharkscope was down to -3,200 at one point in 3 weeks, I'm almost back out of the -2,000s!! Looking to be profit again in SS stats within 3 months Too bad SS doesn't show cash games lol Then i'd be profit!