Which takes more discipline?

[liladypokerpro]

Some folks like to play nothing but freerolls and attempt to build a bankroll from the winnings. Others prefer the more direct route and play in sngs and mtts.

My question is, which of the above do you think requires more discipline?

There could be many arguments depending on how you view the different aspects of each.

Such as, it takes a great deal of discipline in playing freerolls to build a bankroll in that, when you win, you must use your will power to not play with the winnings, but rather let them build over time.

On the same token, it takes much discipline in playing sngs and mtts, because you already have money in your bankroll for buy-ins, but must use your will power not to get greedy and play something that could possibly destroy your roll.

So this is why I thought this was an interesting question, and wondered what everyone else's opinion was.

[iceveins0901]

freeroll MTTs are really just crap shoots until you get very deep, you cannot expect any sort of good play in the first hour or two of a freeroll, so just plain abc poker to get somewhere in a freeroll.

where as in real money sngs and mtts you do need the disipline to know when you are beat and you need to be able to pick your spots better.

[Wyte22]

Also, in free rolls, you can't play YOUR style of poker until you are down to around 50 people. Because everyone is crazy....."OMG 72o ALL IN FOR MY 12K!" Seriously though, if you get chips in a freeroll (Like more than 10K), sit out for the next 1.5 hours, until the majority of the crazy people are gone! then come back in, start with ABC poker, but by Hour 3, you should be able to play YOUR style of poker again.

I firmly believe SnGs and MTTs are 10000000% harder and require more discinple. You know in SnGs that there are at MOST 90 players. Freerolls can and sometime will have 3-5K players. Soo your chances of cashing a SnG are higher than cashing a Freeroll, based on number of people and probability of beating those numbers BUT there is a HUGE skill level difference between freeroll players and SnG/MTTs players. Those 90 players might be very good and could hand you a few surpises here and there. To beat those 90 players (but don't beat yourself!), it requires alot more skill and knowledge of the game then "OMG 72o, ALL IN!"

If you think Free-roll take more discinple to build a BR with, you need to get into a serious SnG/MTTs mode and come to the dark side

[gamer4life27]

There is no way you can compare these two totally different types of game play.

Freerolls don't take as much dicipline as they do dumb luck and little skill. I mean, take FullTiltPoker's freerolls. 2,700 people, and only top 27 get real money!? And people wait 40 minutes just to go all in on the first hand with 2 3 off suit to crack aces almost every time to get from 1,500 to 9,000 chips. Then, in the later stages, the blinds are so high, that only the top 10/300 people could actually play, and the rest of us are almost in all-in or fold mode.

MTT's and SnG's take more patience and dicipline and skill than anything. Most of them have slow blinds, and let you play skill more than luck. The higher limits you get, the better players you will face, thus, making you up your game. So basically, you have to be a good player to play in these.

So lets evaluate: Freerolls don't take much skill as they do luck. And SnG's and MTT's are for those who are experienced in it, and have the dicipline to be in them.

P.s. It took Chris Ferguson half a year to make a steady super small bankroll off of the FullTiltPoker's freerolls, so what does that say?

[Jonathank]

didn't he go from 0-40k+ and then back under 10k? what a loser. what kind of pro is that?

[liladypokerpro]

It's not so much really skills I was referring to as the discipline of managing your bankroll....sorry I should have been more specific....

[iceveins0901]

Originally Posted by Jonathank didn't he go from 0-40k+ and then back under 10k? what a loser. what kind of pro is that?

lol really it was only the $10k challenge, and he did succeed.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by liladypokerpro It's not so much really skills I was referring to as the discipline of managing your bankroll....sorry I should have been more specific....

discinpline wise, it is still way harder to build a BR with SnGs and MTTs.

You lose a FR, what have you lost? nothing but some time.

You lose a SnG or MTTs, what have you lost? Money you invested (+rake) and time.

If you lose 100 straight Freerolls: you lose nothing

If you don't cash 100 straight $11 SnGs: You lost $1100.

If you don't cash 100 straight $5.50 MTTs: you lost $550.

It is ALOT harder to maintain discinple when your losing money and time than when your just losing time.

[liladypokerpro]

Good thoughts...and I agree...here is what a friend of mine said when I asked him:

"I think it's kinda hard for me to play freerolls and win and not want to spend the money at a sng or something right away. So trying to build that little bit of money up is harder and takes more patience I think, because if you already have a bankroll built, then the only thing you gotta do is try not to lose it all. But if you are trying to build one from nothing but freerolls, you can't risk the little winnings you have at all, so you have to tell yourself not to touch it, which can drive somebody like me up a wall" - Mark W.

So I guess if he were a member he'd be the one turning this into an argument LOL He's a good guy tho and I can somewhat see his point I guess...but I pretty much still stand my the idea that SNGs and MTTs take more discipline.

[epetel]

I don't really think you can build a bankroll via freerolls - disciplined or not. I find it pretty easy to cash in those (on some sites where you can play limit games 95% of the entrants don't know the rules of) but you win something like 1-5$. The lower limit ring games and the low buy-in MTT's and SnG's are almost like a freeroll, you can see 10-15% of the people getting KO'd on hand #1 in a MTT or you can see an all-in UTG with A3o in a 5/10c ring game. So in order to actually be able to play your game you'll need much more then 10 freerolls cashouts so you can sit at a table people actually think before pushing all-in. I myself prefer heard-up SnG's or heads-up shootouts, sure you meet morons there too who push with junk and win but thats rare and usually you can beat those too.

[gamer4life27]

The reason I posted the skill on the SnG's and MTT is because skill falls into the catagorie of discipline. You could have all the discipline in the world, and not win one freeroll becaue of the luck factor involved in such big tourneys.

But on the other hand, out of the 2,700 people on FTP for there freerolls, and it's down to 36 people, you gotta be a bit more skilled. It's still skill as the blinds will be high in relevance to your stacks, but other than that, it's almost like a MTT. One or two donkeys might still be in it, but thats how much luck and how many donks there are in those freerolls.

So if you want to compare MTT's and SnG's on discipline, then the MTT's and SnG's take it every time. Even in the smaller buy-in's, after the first few rounds, it's all discipline and skill.

Plus, most freerolls are turbo, so that says that you have to be gambling and not playing good to last a long time.

[Jarlsberg]

It takes a hell of a lot of discipline to sit there for 5 hours knowing that the best you can possibly walk away with is $3/hour. I'd rather just go to work to get that money.

If you don't cash 100 straight $11 SnGs: You lost $1100.

If you fail to cash in 100 straight $11 SNGs, you're doing something seriously wrong.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by Jarlsberg It takes a hell of a lot of discipline to sit there for 5 hours knowing that the best you can possibly walk away with is $3/hour. I'd rather just go to work to get that money. If you fail to cash in 100 straight $11 SNGs, you're doing something seriously wrong.

True but people have sick losing streaks. Any look at my sharkscope, I lost like 7 straight $60 6-max SnGs, a few heads up, and my sharkscope looks like hell, now I am in rebuilding mode lol

[iceveins0901]

Do you suppose that the 9 max and 6 max SNGs have the same varience? I mean which do you think would overall be the most steady to build a BR? Say if we had a test sample of 1000 each, which would be the easier of the two to cash in consistantly?

[Brooklynbum]

It always takes more disciplline when real money is involved.

You can play a million freerolls and hope you score big.

If you have a BR then it becomes more difficult.

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by iceveins0901 Do you suppose that the 9 max and 6 max SNGs have the same varience? I mean which do you think would overall be the most steady to build a BR? Say if we had a test sample of 1000 each, which would be the easier of the two to cash in consistantly?

Considering they both pay only the top 33% (2 places in 6; 3 places in 9).......varience by payout # divided by players, would be equal. Varience in cash amount would affect profitability over the long haul. 9 player pays out 20%,30%,50%.........where as 6 players pay out (I believe this to be correct, if it's not please correct me someone) 30%, 70%. As you can see, the 6-max payout structure, has a higher leap from bubble to first money spot, from 0-30% where as the 9 player max has a 0-20% payout jump. Also, the prize pool for 6-max, benefits first place bigger than the next payout spot. 40% jump from 2nd to 1st in 6-max but in 9-max, your 2nd to 1st jump is only 20%! Considering your only to finish 1st in 6-max tourneys, 1 in 6 times or around 15%, and finish first in 9-max about 1 in 9 times, or about 11%.

Then it comes down to play style fitting for the 2. Some people prefer to play 6-max because they benefit from fewer people (looser hand calling/raising requirements) and faster game play. Some people prefer 9-max because of fewer times around the blinds and more payout spots. It is this that dictates your style and which games you excel at. You need to play a couple dozen of each, and see where you are showing the most profit at with your NORMAL style, whether your a passive player or aggressive or solid player.

[TomodachiSamurai]

Freerolls are designed for practice measures for anyone who doesn't have the experience or knowledge of playing SitNGos or MTTs. If you don't have the experience in either of these two areas, playing freerolls is the best way to get that experience. It wouldn't matter if it's a freeroll or SNG or MTT tournament, theres bound to be a few people who're out to gamble and make foolish "All In" moves. Before dumping your bankroll into SNGs and you don't have the experience, start with freerolls and playchips to get acquainted with the website your playing. There's nothing wrong with playing tight in freerolls and making the right judgment calls...remember take notes! Do it in the early stages of the game on your opponents. Pay close attention to they're betting patterns.

SitNGos are sort of like the "final table" of an MTT. The more SitNGos you play the more you are training and prepared to handle a MTT. Remember the stages of a MTT.

In answer to your question, the discipline comes in Bankroll Management. Whether you did it from freerolls or made a deposit makes no nevermind, if you can't slowly build a positive ROI, than there is something wrong in either the way you're playing or the the cost of the tournament your playing. Never play more than you're willing to lose.

There are three phases of poker, we all go through, it doesn't matter who you are or how good you are you will not stay in a single phase forever.
The first is the LOSING Streak, this means it doesn't matter what you do or how well you played, you're getting outplayed, your aces are getting cracked...you're suffering bad beats, take it in stride, this won't last forever. Keep your game consistent. And if you're that upset, take a day or two off from the site your playing on, even taking a day off from the love of poker may break the the losing streak.

The second phase, The Break Even phase..it doesnt matter what you do, you aren't losing but you're not winning, you seem to always break even..a lil better than the losing streak but you could do better. Again, it's just a phase. Stay consistent! Never tilt.

The last phase, the winning phase. You're winning tournaments, you're taking first place if not coming into the money. I implore you to enjoy these moments and soak it up and be happy for this phase is just the same as others, it won't last so enjoy it!

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by epetel I don't really think you can build a bankroll via freerolls - disciplined or not.

Hmm...I'm pretty sure Chris Fergusson would argue with that

[Wyte22]

Originally Posted by liladypokerpro Hmm...I'm pretty sure Chris Fergusson would argue with that

Chris Fergusson is a donkey a very solid, good playing donkey tho LOL

[liladypokerpro]

Originally Posted by Wyte22 Chris Fergusson is a donkey a very solid, good playing donkey tho LOL

Perhaps, but he made it happen, and he's one of the most talked about pros because of it LOL He got owned in a heads up tournament not too long ago, so I wonder of all his wins, how many were 1st place? LOL